Art Community L.A.+SF

Hi, I will move to California this fall (now in Germany) and want to connect to the 'art scene'. I am painting and drawing. Can anyone help me with deciding between L.A. and San Francisco? I have lived in SF before, so it I am not looking for a beautiful place to be, but an interesting art scene. How are living expenses in those 2 cities? I heard that SF got real expensive, how is it in L.A.?? I have studied Fine Arts in Germany, and have applied at schools in both cities to make contacts to the art world. I am not sure if it has to be an expensive private school though, are there good state schools for the MFA program? What are the ways to enter the art community - talk to people at art shows and galleries? Go to school? Happy about all kinds of suggestions, thank you!

Look up the LA Times online for real estate. Then hit the San Francisco newspapers.

Still want to make that move? Buy a lottery ticket and pray!

[San Francisco itself is ridiculously expensive. Even the warehouses jacked rents skyward during the late Dot-Com boom (for some reason, they preferred lofts to class-A office space- probably to project an arty ambience), and they haven't come down much yet. There are more affordable places to live in the outlying areas, but some (Oakland, Richmond) are not places you'd want to walk around at night. Other places around here have nice neighborhoods, but are basically the 'burbs with no cultural focus outside of the nearest mall. LA is expensive too, if you want to live in the nicer places where you can breathe the air (Santa Monica, Venice, etc.). If you decide to live in South-Central or Watts, which are much cheaper, you've got the same problem as in Oakland or Richmond.

Neither SF nor LA has an 'art scene' that's accessible to outsiders; it's not like Paris in the 1890s where artists gathered in certain cafes spewing theories and absinthe. Instead, artists cluster around the art schools, and various galleries have loyal cliques, but the schools are expensive, while providing dubious value for the money, and the galleries have all the artists they'll need for the forseeable future. If you want to buy art, there are plenty of places to do that, from annual 'Open Studios' events to numerous street fairs and galleries, but don't look to be welcomed with open arms by an 'art community'. While there certainly are some artists and craftspeople doing good work here, they tend to stick to their studios and do it, rather than hang out and party with other artists.]

I have studied

[If you've been in Europe for a while, you'll be unprepared for the pariah status that artists have here. While it's a more or less respectable profession there, with lots of state and even private support that is reflected in ones general social standing, here it gets one the fish-eye, and the inevitable question 'but what do you REALLY do for a living?' Sure, you can go to gallery openings (many galleries try to open shows on the first Thursday of the month, to encourage traffic) and even sign up for art schools (mostly, you'll learn to wear black, pierce and tattoo yourself, and project an ineffable attitude while doing your day-job), but the 'community' will continue to elude you. Identifying oneself as an artist tends to be something people here do in their twenties- by the time one is 30 or so (and has paid off ones student loans), it's generally been written off as an impossible dream. For a while, artists were getting jobs in the dot-com industry, but that's dried up now, and graphic designers are commonly found flipping burgers with the rest of the art-school graduates. I'm sorry to paint such a gloomy picture, but neither SF or LA is any kind of art Mecca- have you considered Santa Fe or Hoboken ? ]

Andrew Werby

I don't know much about SF. It used to be good, but since living expenses & rent cost sky-rocketed in early 90-ties the most of artists moved out of SF and settled in various suburbs. I talked to some artists who used to live in SF. They can not survive in there. Too tough. However from standpoint of culture crazy S.F. is a way ahead of drowsy L.A.

LA is awful place as 'art scene'! Unfortunately I am still in LA. I have been living here for more than a year and now I am moving to the East coast - closer to New York.

There is no art scene as it is neither any distinguishable art community. There are a lot of people living in art lofts and pretending to be artists, but they don't do anything. Not really. Most of them just like the atmoshere and hanging out in art circles. They have other source of income and don't produce any art that can be sold.

I know few serious (and good) artists in LA, though for the most part, they just llive and work in LA, but don't use local art market because it's more rotten than anywhere else.

For example I know two artists they have huge houses with studios and they work hard and serious, but none of them exhibit or sell any painting in California for last 10-15 years. They just avoid doing it because LA art market is completely dead, and trying to make your way through it is nothing but a waste of time. So many artists live in LA (for different reasons), but they market their art some places else...

Naturally L.A. is cheaper that S.F. Apartment rent varies, depending on area, of course. Art lofts are from 1000$ to 1800$ per month.

Make your own conclusions.

Among these two, LA and SF, I would choose S.F., but I don't choose any, because it just makes no sense. For an artist there are just fewer advantages, but disadvantages are innumerable.

And generally California (especially South - L.A. area) is neither interesting or suitable place for a European person to be.

On second thought, hmmm...it depends on person.

Weaving the Conundrum -= NOUMENON =-

Would you be so kind as to define the race/ethnicity California IS suitable for?

Or is it a given?

says...

Santa Fe????? You gotta be kidding!!!

It's right up there with San Fran now as far as cost of living goes. Artists who WERE long-time residents there have begun an exodus in recent years. Now HERE is a New Mexico community where some of those fleeing Santa Fe's high costs have found a haven:

What race or ethnicity has to do with it?

We were talking about art and art communities.

CULTURAL ENVIRONMENT. That's what counts.

If some people find South California a remarkably great in that respect - let them have it and bathe in their errancy. I will not even try to shake someone's most sincerest but silliest delusions.

Weaving the Conundrum -= NOUMENON =-

The quote from the original post stated 'And generally California (especially South - L.A. area) is neither interesting or suitable place for a European person to be.'

What do the last four (4) words mean to you?

Is a European person 'art and an art community'? Or, is a European person a European person?

It sounds as if you detest South California and that is fine. (I have a few problems with it myself). However, I still want an answer to my question based on the original quote.

In other words, what is it about South California that especially makes it inappropriate for a EUROPEAN PERSON?

ABSENSE of CULTURE. SHOCKING SNOBBERY. BACKWARD MENTALITY. HORRID IGNORANCE.

This would be the insider's guide to Southern California? Thanks so much for your input.

I'd add:

EGOISM EXTREMIS NOW NOW NOWISM FOOLISH FOULISTS MONEY MOONY WORSHIPPING HASTE WASTE & UNCHASTE