Mixing Brands of Paint

I put up this hopefully helpful web page for those who might have been following the paint-slinging campaign here on the issue of color variances between paint manufacturers:

You put up the page just for this? I am touched.

What you originally stated - mistakenly as you now realized - is that you can only mix oil paints made by the same manufacturer. Now you are talking about not changing brands while you paint? This wasn't the issue. What do I care if you change brands?

I don't know which teacher of yours duped you into thinking that you can only mix paints from the same manufacturer. Yes, yes, I know. You have 2 university degrees in studio art and you have 36 years of 'hands-on experience'. I am only sorry that you were duped for so many years. I guess this only proves that higher art education has really gone downhill, and that some university art departments would graduate students without learning the basics.

I am glad that you so respect Nita Leland that you quoted her prominently in your page. Although I have not conversed with Nita for years, she was an old on-line friend of me. This is why if you follow the art links in her page, you'd find a link to my site. Thank-you, Nita.

says...

MISTAKEN you were because you apparently either have a serious reading comprehension problem or a severe inferiority complex that causes you to go roaring off on your high horse without TRYING to understand what the other person is saying. I never once said you 'can't mix paints of different brands.' That's the way you've twisted my words out of context.

What I said was that it makes a beginner fight even more complications by buying paints of different brands when they are first starting out. And I'm referring to the COLOR mixing - not the physical mixing. And it was a VERY minor point in the first place. You've chosen to grind on about it endlessly, making mountains of molehills.

And I'm tired of both you and your pettifogging ways and will not respond to you further. You are evidently a very insecure person and go around looking for windmills at which to tilt.

I hope, for the sake of anyone you may actually try to teach, that you grow up - sooner rather than later.

I thought I read in my favorite magazine, that brand mixing was a no-no. And that using 1 brand in a single work of art lends to the piece's consistency. I don't mix different brands of colored pencils because I've noticed some brands of colored pencils are drier/greasier/waxier than others.

I've even noticed that different brands of pencils yield different results. For instance, a 2B of one brand could be a lot softer/darker than another brand.

I stick to one brand per piece unless I'm willing to compensate for the different textures (i.e. results) that show up in the work.

I'm surprised to hear this problem doesn't occur with paint.

you've twisted my words out of context.<

You know. Trying to get you to even admit what you wrote is like trying to nail jelly to the wall. Here is exactly what you wrote, it is still on the board:

providing they are all from the same manufacturer.<

... and ....

necessarily with those of another manufacturer.<

You wrote this nonsense. I didn't. It's there for posterity. Anyone can go back to your posts and read them. Hope this helps!

With oil paints, it's not a problem. Even jaxart now concedes that. Yes, he was duped for 36 years. But it's not too late for you, Flying Naked People!

Certainly not bad advice for the beginner.

Manufacturers certainly do make that claim. Water-mixable oils, for example, are made using different methods so it's anyone's guess how well different types mix.

Modern chemistry being what it is, manufacturers are all formulating their paints in slightly different ways and it's unlikely any manufacturer will guarantee that their paint will reliably mix with that from another manufacturer. That doesn't mean they won't mix or that the mix will cause problems. However, if problems occur then the complete novice is in no position to determine whether the probelm is related to potential incompatibilites or something else.

It makes sense for a complete beginner to not be too adventurous from day 1 - unless they're just an expressionist and don't give a toss about rules

Andy D.

'I'm a great speller - but a hopless tpyist!'

Jax -

You've made a switch, here.

In your initial post, you maintained that you cannot mix different brands of paint. Meaning that you can't mix cad yellow medium from Brand X with pthalo green from Brand Y to make a different color without risking problems. This is incorrect, as Dik pointed out.

In the link below, however, you state that you shouldn't begin a painting using, say, yellow ochre from Brand X, then continue with yellow ochre from Brand Y, since different brands of the same color may be quite different. This is correct.

Karin

It DOES occur with paint - that's my point. It's Dik who claims it doesn't.

As for pencils - you're correct in that lead pencils vary in hardness across manufacturers. Just as I'm no authority on paint manufacturing or paint standards, I know little about pencil manufacture either. But UTRECHT makes a very close immitation of the Faber Castel EBONY and it's cheaper, I think. Give either of these a try if you haven't. You'll love the velvety soft feel and the ability to get as intense a black as is possible with ordinary graphite without going to charcoal - which I dislike!

says...

No I haven't. Who are you anyway, Dik's alter-ego?

You're having as hard a time understanding me as he does. And now that others have finally jumped into this fray it seems common sense is finally winning out here.

My mistake has been in trying keep my post short and to the point. I should have elaborated on the issue of manufacturers who deliberately attempt to make sure that the formulations they sell will intermix to give clean intermediate colors. It's just plain common sense that they would have this concern - considering especially that student grade paint is often made from blends of colorants, some of non-traditional chemistry. (and I'm sure someone will jump on me for that last remark since 'non-traditional' probably needs elaboration too for those quick to nitpick!)

And of course I chose to use the word 'primary' in a generic way and was jumped on for doing so. And the point that went un-made is that most paint mfrs sell the 'beginner' colors in SETS. Those sets have colors in them that are 'primary' in the sense that they are chosen to intermix to give clean intermediate colors. And it's very important to the beginner to be able to mix a single yellow and blue to get a clean green. I've seen students struggle to get a clean green when using, for example, a Winton Yellow and a Grumbacher Academy blue - experience talking!

Even with my experience intermixing colors from different brands, I've had difficulty helping students to get the color they want when blending student-grade brands - ooops, that happens more often with acrylics, now that I stop to think about it...

...I have a problem when discussing paint characteristics in that I have to stop and think about whether its true of all kinds of paints sold as artist colors today. In the begginning painting classes I have taught, I try to get first-timers to start in acrylics but I don't make it a hard and fast rule, and deal with whatever they happen to show up in class with.

Flexibility is a teacher's particular need in this small mountain community I live in, where the only local supplier for art materials is a Walmart store, and where the art classes, when I taught here, were held in the high school art building since the branch of ENMU here doesn't have their own classrooms.

Also, in my own work I switch mediums all the time, from one painting to the next, so I'm not stuck on painting only in oils as Dik apparently is. My thinking muddles together the different mediums, and then the need to keep my posts succinct adds to the confusion, and for that I apologize.

And now that I've bored everyone to tears with an extra-long post, I'll apologize for that too!

Winton Yellow and a Grumbacher Academy blue - experience talking!<

Indeed, they would. That's because neither of these colors exists. Winsor and Newton does make a Winsor Yellow; Winton makes yellows from various pigments. But there is no Winton yellow. Grumbacher Academy blue? Artists' paints aren't sold as just yellow and blue, but sold according to pigments. I think we've covered this already.

Companies as Winsor and Newton would make two yellows, one from cadmium and other from azo pigments. Although from the same brand, the two yellows have vastly different mixing properties, opacity, and tinting strength. Unless you understand the difference between these pigments, you would have problems mixing colors even if they are from the same brand.

For you to conclude just from what you saw that different brands don't mix. That's like reading the newspaper's obituary list, and then concluding that people died in alphabetical order.

Look, I don't know you; and I wouldn't claim to have your many university degrees and years of experience. But clearly you sometimes write of subjects you know little about. It's good to disburse information; but it has to be accurate information. Otherwise, you are doing others a disservice by misleading them. Judging from your posts, I doubt that's your intention.