Hi I recently purchased this lithograph. Could somebody please provide me w...

Hi
I recently purchased this lithograph. Could somebody please provide me with an opinion on whether this is possible a genuine Picasso signature and original work? Thanks in advance for any help.

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rtcorr avatar
11 months ago #2
rtcorr
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I find this work a bit puzzling. You say this is a lithograph, yet the image is actually one of the etchings Picasso did as part of the "Vollard Suite" in the 1930's. On the face of it, if the pencil markings are real, he dated this piece more than 20 years later -- but I cannot figure out why. I am also baffled why a gallery would disfigure a print with a stamp on the face of the work -- something I have never seen before. I strongly suggest you contact the Picasso Administration -- the final say in such matters -- for their evaluation and authentication: http://www.picasso-authentification.fr/?lang=en

Stef avatar
11 months ago #3
Stef
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Many thanks rtcorr for your kind advice. I was thinking to be told outright this to be fake not being in anyway an expert on Picasso however before buying it I did quite a bit of googling to ensure I was taking a reasonable chance. The reason why I bought it and what I found reasonable is that I saw many places on the web talking about a 1956 series of lithos reissuance of the vollard suite. Second the signature if it is a fake is then very well imitated as I compared letter by letter to other authentic signatures of that period and I found it matches quite well. I found the number 2 and the number 5 in the date also matching closely other dated signatures by Picasso. Thirdly I found other lithos of Picasso with that exact same galerie stamp in other areas of the web by very different vendors so not this seller faking it then. I also found lithographs from other masters such as Miro with that same stamp looking good and quite expensive. So I perfectly realise faking Picasso is a big business and non experts like me can be easily fooled, however interesting you did not dismiss it upfront. I m interested in alternative opinions / inputs. Thanks and regards. Stephane

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Stef avatar
11 months ago #4
Stef
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I can read this sort of stories for instance .... this ties up with my piece...boils down to the question whether the signature is authentic or fake....as you suggest the only way to know is probably to send to Picasso Administrators....thanks again for your input

On this website
http://iconcraft.gr/2016/05/07/picasso-and-chagall-original-lithographs-at-icon-gallery/

The Vollard Suite was a collection of 100 etchings commissioned by art dealer and collector Ambroise Vollard, who was also responsible for mounting Picasso’s first solo exhibition in 1901. Though Vollard was killed in an automobile accident before the series was complete, it was printed in 1939 and not offered up for sale before 1950. Originally 313 copies were made from each plate – these are very rarely available on the market, and sell for four figure prices.

The 1956 lithographs that we have acquired belong to a reprinting of the Vollard Suite authorised by Picasso himself. In 1956 the original etchings were reproduced as a portfolio by H. Abrams, New York in a portfolio accompanied by a critical overview by H. Bollinger and the full set of lithographs. This printing is listed in the Picasso catalogue raisonnee and is an authorised reproduction. Although up until 1969 Picasso signed some copies at the buyers’ request, these have not been counted or fully identified, and therefore signed copies cannot always be fully authenticated.

rtcorr avatar
11 months ago #5
rtcorr
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Stephane:

Based on your photos, to me it seems to be authentic but we at this site can only offer our considered opinions since it is not a site for authentication. Bear in mind there are also very good forgers out there.

As I said, it's best to submit this to the Picasso Administration for a final say.

Stef avatar
11 months ago #6
Stef
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Hi rtcorr many thanks for getting back to me. Fully appreciate you can simply provide a personal view of course. I will probably follow your advice and if this is the case I will for sure let you know in this post. Best. Stephane

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9 months ago #7
BrunoZenobio
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Good Morning! I bought these two engravings with the same date and stamp of Galeri Mathias Fels. In fact the gallery existed ... I compared with subscriptions from the same period and I found it very similar. What do you think?

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9 months ago #8
Stef
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Interestingly the same date as mine...

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9 months ago #9
BrunoZenobio
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Stef, i compared with other signatures of the period and looks very similar. In fact, the Galerie Mathias Fels, existed in Paris during the period of the signature, being created in 1955. I believe that the stamp was a way to advertise the gallery ...

BrunoZenobio avatar
9 months ago #10
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See:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Fels

Mathias Fels (1922-2009), is a French gallery that, in 1961, "the intuition of a return to figuration." It will then support the movement of narrative figuration which he called New Figuration.

In 1955, with lack of funds, he teamed with Rosa Faure to open the gallery Mathias Fels & Cie Boulevard Haussmann in Paris.

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9 months ago #11
The Anthem
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Would there be a reason there is no plate marks? Also. The stain is identical on both. Why is that?

Stef avatar
9 months ago #12
Stef
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Yes I did exactly the same research as you and came to the same conclusion for the gallery, the signature and even the digits in the date.... now we can both be wrong and this would be a smart fake. As the expert says the only way to know is to get it authenticated by the Picasso estate at the end of the day.

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rtcorr avatar
9 months ago #13
rtcorr
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It is quite strange that there are no (apparent) plate marks for these -- which are from etchings done in the 1930's for Ambroise Vollard if I recall correctly.

Also: why would anyone who owns an original print allow them to be disfigured in such a manner (and not one but two prints!) and why no edition markings?

Could these be reproductions from the original etchings (with Picasso's participation) as some sort of advertising for the gallery?

As suggested earlier, authentication and perhaps further historical information can be provided by the Picasso Administration.

Stef avatar
9 months ago #14
Stef
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There is no plate marks because from my research this is a photolithograph re issue, albeit a decent quality one, not a stone lithograph. The story then goes that it was authorised and supervised by Picasso and he was authographing later some of these to the general public. I can imagine possibly in Dec 56 a public autograph session in that Parisian gallery as you suggest.

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9 months ago #15
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I believe there is a set of historical information that leads us to think that these engravings are in fact signed by Picasso:

A) Check out this link: https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/53309271_pablo-picasso-after-suite-vollard

In it we can see engravings just like those from a Gerd Hatje edition of 1956. This is an edition of photolithographs authorized by Picasso and not are etchings;

😎 Galerie Mathias Fels was founded in Paris 1955;

C) The dates of the signatures are the same, suggesting that they were all signed all the same day - at an event or at the request of the gallery;

D) In ​​a marketing strategy, as the gallery was very new, the Mathias Fels Gallery may have acquired these authorized reproductions and held a dissemination event such as a night of autographs. The stamp on the front served as a form of dissemination, since it associated Picasso's name with that of the Mathias Fels Gallery.

E) The signature and the wear of the paper agree with the time;

F) If they were forgeries, why are such engravings found in different sources?

Thus, considering the above information, I believe that these are editions of photoligrations acquired by Galeria Mathias Fels in the year 1956 for which Picasso signed, probably having been paid for it.

rtcorr avatar
9 months ago #16
rtcorr
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What is the source of your statement that Picasso authorized these reproductions?

Unless you have definitive documentation, they could have been issued by a gallery, some bought up and a forged dates and signatures affixed.

I suggest that until the Picasso Administration is consulted, provides some factual information and makes a definitive evaluation of these works, no further guesswork is needed.

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8 months ago #17
Chirale
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This post is great. well done guys! You have probably noted already, but there are quite a few of these prints/lithograph on ebay at the moment. Did anyone get any answer from the authentication service?
thank you

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afrcnrt1965 avatar
5 months ago #18
afrcnrt1965
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The name is sculpture studio.

rtcorr avatar
5 months ago #19
rtcorr
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I notice that there was no reply to my question of sources.

Sadly, there are so many "stories" about Picasso doing this and that which can lead one to possibly surmise they were created solely to lend legitimacy to particular works of art -- especially questionable reproductions and possible fakes & forgeries.

afrcnrt1965 avatar
5 months ago #20
afrcnrt1965
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The post base on the photo the drawing was published in the book.

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3 months ago #21
Harry Shields
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Hi
It's a terrible fake. The stamp is wrong as is the pencil. You need to look at the lead content of the pencil. Looks too light for 55/6

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3 months ago #22
David garrick
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It's all wrong. I can also see the 'brushing in' on the pencilled signatures. Fakes.

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3 months ago #23
Stef
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Hi. Given the Conte/Thoreau scale being well implemented since the beginning of the century with various pencil makers producing different stiffness in France, I am not sure I see your point. Also - thanks God - there is no such thing as lead in pencils ! For the seal, it may be wrong, absolutely agree, but you are not providing any element to support this statement one way or the other so difficult to discuss here 😊

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3 months ago #24
S.A
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Just strange how the seal stamp looks to new and did not get affected by the water..

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2 months ago #25
Tintolo
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These are Vintage posters probably signed by Picasso

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2 months ago #26
Stef
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Yes it is at best a genuine authograph on an offset lithograph so not worth millions either way !

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